1) Outside the Hourglass + Disarm = counts
2) Streed Cred + Carrion Crows = not counted
...
There are other easy examples, but I want to stick to those two for now...
What damage is environmental damage?
I think this is a very core, and very simple decision, to deciding how all of these cards should work. For starters, I think that environmental damage should be explicitly stated so on cards played by minions AND any damage which is caused by a minion directly involved in the combat or is caused by a retainer should be environmental (i.e. Not from the acting minion or opposing minion).
Ghoul Retainer = Environmental
Wolf Companion = Environmental
Mariel, Lady Thunder = Environmental
What damage is from 'this minion' or the 'opposing minion'?
- If a combat card is played to generate the effect, then it is from the minion which played the card unless the card specifically states otherwise.
- If a minion has an effect on their own cardtext, then it is from that minion and cannot be environmental.
- If a minion has an equipment which does the damage (not a retainer) then it is from that minion and cannot be environmental.
Weather Control = From the minion (barring changes of cardtext)
Outside the Hourglass = From the minion (barring changes of cardtext)
What is the 'range' before the 'determine range' step?
This is tricky, but I think should be made very simple. Any damage before range is determined is considered to be at long range since the damage would count even if the range of the combat is later long. Ranged damage strikes can be used at close, or at long range, so therefore it seems more logical to insist that any damage done before range is determined should use long range.
What will this change?
- Carrion Crows/Weather Control/Outside the Hourglass (unless it was edited) would count for Taste of Vitae AND Street Cred.
- Disarm would need to be edited to only count Strike Damage (unless "people" are happy that someone can lose their arm to Outside the Hourglass and S:D/S:CE). Similarly for Pulled Fangs.
- If it does not come from a minion involved in the combat, it is environmental.
- If the card does not state "environmental" damage, then it cannot be environmental.
- Effects from vampire text cannot be "environmental" unless they are not involved in the combat.
- Any 'before range' damage is counted as 'ranged damage' since its effect occurs even if the round of combat happens to be at long range later.
I don't find your post convincing at all. Basically, you see some (arbitrary) ruling, and want to substitute them another (exactly as arbitrary) ruling.
ReplyDeleteThe entire point of making the ruling is to ensure that all future cards can be made with full knowledge of their interactions. At the moment, the game does not concretely recognise 'environmental damage'. It is a term which only exists in rulings by LSJ (and subsequently by PB). So, it stands to reason that we should basically introduce the formal concept of enironmental damage onto card texts. Once you want to introduce environmental damage, you need to define it. I'd suggest that the easiest definition is "Damage not done by a minion involved directly in the combat" which means Retainer are Environmental, 3rd-parties are environmental and everything else is NOT environmental. Simple definition, easy to apply, problems with rulings card-by-card are gone.
ReplyDeleteA better choice on 'before range' is that the damage is not done at any range, therefore cards that require damage to have been done at a specific range are not impacted at all by that 'before range' damage.
ReplyDeleteThat was the other option I was thinking of. But knowing the tendency for people to insist there is a range before range, I would prefer to make it long. I also agree with a recent suggestion that Disarm & Pulled Fangs should include "Only usable at close range."
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