After a recent thread in the Usenet group, I noticed an interesting idea in there: alternative edges. I haven't had a chance to properly examine the "Double Edge" post that was listed in there somewhere... but I did get to thinking that it could be used to facilitate some currently less than golden core strategies. My first thought was to improve the Red List Deck by giving them an Edge that has some real grunt... here are the first few draft ideas for my lamely named PowerEdge Variation.
This creates a new card type called an Edge Variation. Edge Variations are placed face up on the table before the game commences and count against the Library size limit. Edge Variations cannot be targeted and are effectively ‘out of play’; they provide a play option to the Methuselah and leave with that Methuselah. A Methuselah can utilise as many Edge Variations as they wish.
When a player gains the Edge, they may place it on its own on the table and use it in the normal ways described in the rule book.
Alternatively they may allocate it to an Edge Variation; by placing the Edge on the card, or the card on the Edge depending on the item used as the Edge. In this case, the player may only use the Edge in the ways described on the Edge Variation.
Imperialist Edge
Edge Variation
You may burn the Edge at the start of your Untap phase to make a vampire Red List; you will need to burn 1 pool for each permanent vote that vampire has.
You may mark a Red List minion during your Untap phase without cost.
Academic Edge
Edge Variation
You may burn the Edge at the start of your Untap to place a card from your hand into your Research Area or to draw a card from your Research Area to your hand. Discard as normal.
While you control the Edge, any vampire you control above capacity 7 may take an action that costs 1 pool to burn the Edge and increase your hand size by 1 until your next Untap phase.
Paranoid Edge
Edge Variation
You may burn the Edge and tap a minion with 5 or more capacity or life to cause a (D) action directed targeting you to fail before it block attempts are declared.
Aggressive Edge
Edge Variation
You may burn the Edge at the start of your Untap phase to cause your prey to burn 1 pool.
You may burn the Edge once during your minion phase to Untap a ready vampire after a combat where the opposing minion is no longer ready.
I'm sure more of these things will come to me over time, I am already thinking of one that may allow you to use the Edge as a HG for two vampires... but anyway. There is the core of an idea... comment away people.
Yeah, basically I like the idea, making the Edge a bit more versatile (and powerful) than it used to be.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure whether the card idea (counting against the library size) is the right way to go. Instead I would either make Edge variation cards (somewhat similar the Motivation cards in one of the previous Storyline) everyone can pick before the game, or you make different types of edge "cards" everybody can choose from as soon as he acquires the Edge.
I like the last two Edge variations you posted. Red listing a vampire should be harder, than holding the Edge for a round. If such a Edge variation should be used, cost could be probably be based on capacity, e.g. burn X pool to red list a vampire of capacity 2X (or less).
Maybe time to move the idea (and discussion) to one of the VtES forums (VEKN, BGG or Usenet) ..
There are some interesting ideas here, but there are also some issues that need to be worked out.
ReplyDeleteFirst, as written here I'd expect many decks to just run all of the available edge variations. Certainly any deck that's naturally under 90 cards would do so. That seems kinda anti-thematic to me. It might also slow down the game a bit - I mean, every time you get the edge, you have another decision to make from 5+ options. Not to mention that most of the time that decision wouldn't have any game effect, as most of the time the edge won't stay with one player the whole time!
Maybe it would be better to just allow everyone to play one Edge Variation.
I also think that abilities that only trigger when you have the Edge at untap are tough to build around. The only time you can expect these effects to show up reliably are in the endgame, and then only for a defensive deck.
When adding additional complexity to an existing game, I think it's really important to make sure that the new rules are used often enough that people don't feel they wasted their time learning them. I think that having only during-untap abilities would fail this principle.
If I was going to change the edge, I might do something like this:
ReplyDeleteBalanced Edge
Edge Variation. During your untap phase, if you control the edge, you may gain 1 pool. You may burn the Edge for 1 vote during your turn, or 2 votes during another player's turn.
Violent Edge
Edge Variation. During your discard phase, if your prey has a vampire in torpor, you may burn the edge to cause them to lose 1 pool. You may burn the edge for 1 vote.
Rebel Edge
Edge Variation. During your discard phase, you may burn the Edge and choose a non-Anarch vampire you control who successfully bled this turn. Put an Anarch counter on the chosen vampire; the vampire with this counter is an Anarch (and Independent). Burn the Anarch counter if this vampire changes sects. You may burn the Edge to cancel the votes of a titled acting vampire.
More ideas:
ReplyDeleteHunter's Edge
Once during your main phase, you may burn the Edge as a hunt action is announced. If successful, the hunting vampire gains an additional blood from the blood bank. When one of your minions plays a reaction card that does not change the target of a bleed, you may burn the Edge to reduce the cost of that card by 1 blood.
Investor's Edge
During your untap phase, you may burn the Edge to gain 1 pool. During your discard phase, if you control the Edge, you may move 1 counter from an Investment you control to your pool. You may burn the Edge for 1 vote.
Seeker's Edge
During your influence phase, you may burn the Edge instead of burning a pool when you draw the top card of your crypt. During your discard phase, if you played any equipment, retainers or allies from your library with a pool cost of 1 or greater this turn, you may burn the Edge to gain a pool. You may burn the Edge for 1 vote during the referendum of a political action.
Gambler's Edge
Edge Variation. During your untap phase, you may burn the Edge to gain 2 pool. you may burn the Edge for 1 vote. If you lose control of the Edge during your predator's turn, lose 1 pool.
@extrala: The big reason for Untap effects is that I wanted them to basically be a trade-off worth 1 pool. Then instead of getting the "gain 1 pool" effect you'd get some other effect that was worth 1 pool. I wanted to also avoid playing to the strengths of particular decks like: vote decks & S&B.
ReplyDeleteI expect that most players won't retain the edge, they don't at the moment so why should an Edge Variation change that?
I do agree that it is sensible to limit it to 1 per player.
Examples:
1. Make a vampire an Anarch (currently Anarch Convert has a net cost of 1 pool or 4 transfers)
2. Give you more reasons to play Red List decks (by allowing you to easily make Red List minions but also allowing you to target more than one... if you could keep the edge)
Red Listing any old untitled vamp costs an action at most (or 1 pool this way from retaining the edge). Red Listing titled vampires requires more effort currently (Trumped up Charges IIRC is the only way to do it) and so should the effect of using this edge (Redlisting an IC costs you effectively 5 pool)
3. Fail an Action would often be worth 1 pool (certainly DI, DI2 and Wash have highly valuable effects, usually worth the MPA cost and at least as powerful as Ascendance)
4. Increased Handsize costs around 1 pool (see: Nahir, Elder Library). It could easily be 2 handsize to bring it on parity with Dreams of the Sphinx, but even when I use it I feel that Dreams has too much of an impact in the mid-to-late-game.
@finbury: I'd modify some of those...
Violent Edge (mk2)
Edge Variation
Vampires you control may take a (D) action, burning the edge, to cause a Methuselah to burn 1 pool for every vampire they control in torpor.
If a referendum called by your predator fails, you may tap a vampire of capacity 5 or more, immediately after the action, to deal 2 damage to the vampire that called the failed referendum.
Investor's Edge
Edge Variation
If you control this edge at the beginning of your untap phase, gain 1 pool from the blood bank and you may remove 1 investment counter from each investment you have. If you do so, you may not remove counters from these investments in your Master Phase.
During another player's turn you may burn this edge to gain 1 vote for each investment you have.
Hunter's Edge
Edge Variation
During your untap you may burn this edge to move 1 blood for every vampire with capacity 4 or less to a vampire with capacity 5 or more; each vampire may lose or gain only 1 blood.
If a vampire you control successfully hunts, you may burn this edge to give the acting vampire an additional blood and one other vampire you control 1 blood.
Rebellious Edge
Edge Variation
During your Influence phase, you may burn this edge to make an untitled non-Anarch vampire you control an Independent Anarch. During your discard phase you may burn this edge to untap a vampire that became an Anarch during your turn.